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myrizvi |
Group: Members Joined: 20th Apr, 2008 Topic: 103 Post: 5466 Age:
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| Posted on:19th Apr 2010, 11:45pm |
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 yeah u r rite
mumtaaz mufty sb nay apni bahoot see books maiN issi qism ki "roohaniyaat" ka parchaar kia hai...... jiska quran aur sunnat ki taleemaat main koi tazkeraa nahi........ yeh bhi dar asal soofism hi ki aik shaakh hai
ilmay tikwany aik alehdah ilm hai jiska ilhaami ilm (paighambaroun ko ataa kardah ilm) say bilkul alag hai........ tikweny ilm hazrat khizr AS ko ataa howaa thaa aur onhoun nay issi ilm ki madad say kashty main soraakh, larkay ko qatal aur help nah karnay waloun k village main aik girti howi deewaar ki taameer ki thee. aur yeh tamaam amal aik nabi ki samjha /ilhaami ilm say baalaa thaa
wazah rahay k aik aam ummati ko sirf aur sirf shariyat k ilm ka paband kia gaya hai jo ambeyaa k zariyeh naazil howaa........... yeh roohaani aloom /ilmay takwini agar kissi ko haasil bhi hai to woh jaanay aur oska khodaa..... hum ko "oss-world' say kuch lena dena nahi...... agar hum onkay chakkaroun main paRay to ain mumkin hai k gumraah hojayain aur quran o sunnat ki batlayee howi raah say bhaTak jayaiN. |
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Maryam |
Group: Members Joined: 17th May, 2008 Topic: 26 Post: 4432 Age:
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| Posted on:20th Apr 2010, 12:08am |
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jazakAllah yehi woh points thay jin se confliction thi .tou aik bayan bhi sama,at se guzra k shobda baazon ko dekh kar un par emaan na le ana . kyun k dajjal waqt ka sab se baRa shobda baaz hoga aur suraj ko maghrib se nikalay ga . isi tarah jahan se guzray ga qehat wali zameen par haryali ajaygi . qehat khatam hojayega . murdon ko zinda kar dega tou kiya us ko dekh kar bhi emaan le ao gay . aise hi waqt k liye ehle emaan ko apna emaan mazboot rakhnay ki talqeen ki gai hae .
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Seemi |
Group: Members Joined: 11th Sep, 2007 Topic: 14 Post: 3829 Age:
26
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| Posted on:20th Apr 2010, 12:53am |
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Maryam Baji. Mein to Peer e Kamil ki story hi bhool gayi.. I couldn't manage to get a copy of it again. would you please little explain me about the story. |
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Maryam |
Group: Members Joined: 17th May, 2008 Topic: 26 Post: 4432 Age:
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| Posted on:20th Apr 2010, 1:13am |
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 seemi ji
is topic k start main peer e kamil ko discuss kiya gaya hae aur bhimji ne story theme bhi likhi hae . Imama hashim ,dr Ansar aur Salaar ka triangle bhi bataya hae . aap bhi start se read karain aur apni roy bhi batayen . |
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Seemi |
Group: Members Joined: 11th Sep, 2007 Topic: 14 Post: 3829 Age:
26
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| Posted on:20th Apr 2010, 2:06am |
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Maryam Baji. Mein abhi parhti hoon :) |
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Roshni_83 |
Group: Members Joined: 25th Dec, 2011 Topic: 0 Post: 14 Age:
29
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| Posted on:25th Dec 2011, 3:15pm |
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Peer e Kamil Hello, me ne abhi se achanak se iss topic ko dekha...i have also read Peer e Kamil, bohat Afsoos se kehna parha hai, ke ye Novel par kar mujhe andaza hua ke Umaira Ahmed jinko me bohata cha samajhti thi, wo bhi Jahil hi nikklin....
i think kissi Insaan ko ye right nahin hai, ke kissi Mazhab, kissi Firqe ko jan ne ke bagahir uss ke bare me ghallat baten likhe, agr Umaira Ahmed ne ye topic choose kiya hi tha, to unko Ahmadiyya Jamaat ke bare me pehle se sahi tarha se tehkeek kar ke likhna chahye tha, na ke idhar udhar se sunni sunaye baton pe yakeen kar ke likh diya....iam shocked, itne novel likhen hai, itne mashri massayel utthayen hain unho ne apne novels me, lekinye jahalat hai un me...
ppls iam also an Ahmaddi, and iam proud of it ke khuda tallah ne mujhe ek Ahamddi gharane me paida kiya...khuda ka laakh laakh shukkar ke me gumrahon me se nahin hoon,
me aap sab ko itna hi bata sakti hoon ko kuch Ahmadiyyat ke bare me iss novel me likha hai intahai ghallat baten hain...
Aur upar me ne ek post parhi thi kissi ki,jiss ne likha tha, ke agr to inko samjhana hai to inke bachon ya youngster ko samjhayen ....
ye par kar mujhe bohat hi hassi aaye, kya yehi yakeen hai aap ko apne mazhab pe? Aap ka khayaal hai jin ko bohat ilam hai unke saath aap discuss nahin kar sakte lihaza unko pakro jin ko ziada patta nahin hai....lollzzzz
so funny......
so now iam waiting for ur answers.... |
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myrizvi |
Group: Members Joined: 20th Apr, 2008 Topic: 103 Post: 5466 Age:
53
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| Posted on:25th Dec 2011, 11:40pm |
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Roshni_83
sab say pahlay to welcome on NCF
iss ID say yeh apki pahli post hai, goya k apnay yeh ID sirf issi topic par discuss karne k liyeh banayee hai. agar ap sanjeedgi say "ahmadi mazhab" par guftagoo karna chaahti haiN to u r most welcome sister...
1. Hazrat Aadam AS aur onkay baad aanay walay tamaam rasool /Nabi AS aik hi mazhab lay kar aa,ay thay...aur woh hai ISLAM. kissi new nabi /Rasool k aanay tak sabeqah Rasool ko mannay walay "muslim" hi thay. lekin new nabi k aanay k baad ... jin logouN nay new nabi ko maan lia, wohi muslim rah gayee... aur remaining log kafir "ban gaye" ... for example hazrat Muhammad saw ki amad say qabal hazrat Eesa AS k mannay walay "muslim" hi thay... lekin jab hazrat Muhammad saw nay nabwat ka elaan kia to hazrat Eesa k mannay walouN maiN say jin ligouN nay aap saw ki nabwat ko tasleem kia sirf wohi muslim rahay...aur nah mannay walay KAFIR ban.gaye... jo qabl azeeN muslim thay ... aur aahistah sirf aahistah hazrat eesaa AS ko mannay walay eesaye k nama say shanakht rakhnaylagay.
2. yehi osool azal say raha hai k jo new nabi ko nah maanay, woh KAAFIR hai...khaah woh sabeqah tamam ambeyaa AS ko maanta raha ho... hazrat Muhammad saw woh wahid Nabi haiN jinhouN nay claim kia k woh last and final nabi haiN aur onkay baad koi Nabi nahi aayega... yeh baat quran ki soorat Al-Ahzaab maiN bhi hai k aap saw khatamun Nabiyyeen (saw) hain aur ahaadees maiN bhi hai k Laa nabiyyah baadi (meray baad koi Nbai nahi.
3. Hazrat Muhamad saw k mannay walay 1300 saal tak onhaiN last Nabi aur last rasool maantay rahay aur moslamaan kahlaatay rahay.... go k iss dauraan bhi kai logouN nay nabwat ka (jhoota) dawaa kia aur kuch logouN nay onhaiN Nabi manaa bhi lekin woh jald hi dunya k manzar say ghaib hogaye..... hatta k pichli sadi maiN, angrezouN k dauray hakoomat maiN, united india maiN Mirza Ghulam ahmed nay jo aik muslim scholar thay, hazrat Muhammad saw par imaan rakhtay thay aur Quran k mofassir bhi thay... apni nabwat ka elaan kardia jo hazrat Muhammad saw k iss elaan k bar.aks thaa k woh last and final nabi saw hain aur onkay baad koi Nabi nahi aayegaa.
4. Muslim Ummat maiN say hi kuch logouN nay Mirza Ghulam Ahmed k dawaa nabwat ko qabool kia jabkay bhari aksariyat nay onhaiN "jhooTa Nabi" qarar dia... Mirza ghulaam Ahmed aur onkay followers nay bhi khud ko "muslim" hi declare kia aur apni alihdah shanakht as "Muslim Ahmadi" rakhi ... indo pak maiN iss "group" ki ahmadi, mirzayee, qadyaani etc k naam say bhi pokara jata hai... jabkay yahaaN say bahar yeh "muslim (ahmadi community)" k taur par jaanay jatay haiN
5. Ahmadi community Mirza Ghulam Ahmed ko sacha Nabi maanti hai. jabkay Non-Ahmadi muslims inhaiN "jhooTa Nabi" qarar detay haiN... qatah nazar iskay k yeh Mirza Ghulam Ahmed sachay Nabi haiN yaa jhootay Nabi.... aik baat tay hai k iss waqt Mirza Ghulam Ahmed k hawalay say 2 group ban ga.aye.... aik woh jo inhaiN such.cha Nbai maantay haiN... inkay nazdeeq jo sachay Nabi (Mirza) ko nahi maantaa woh kaafir hai (as per principle) aur jo onhaiN maanta hai, sirf wohi muslim hai....... doosri taraf muslim ummat ki bhari aksariyat mirza ko jhoota nahi kahti hai aur woh khud ko muskim aur mirza ko Nabi mannay waloun ko KAAFIR qarar detay haiN
6. osooli taur par donouN group ka kahna Theek hai... ahmadi community k nazdeeq non-ahmadi KAAFIR haiN aur non-ahmadi k nazdeeq ahmadi KAAFIR haiN... yeh donouN kissi bhi soorat maiN MUSLIM nahi hosaktay.... in donouN maiN say sirf aik groh hi MUSLIM hai...chouNkay yeh donoun qayamat, janat aur dozakh ko maantay haiN.... lehaza in donouN ko yeh achi tarah samajh lena chahaiyeh k in donoun maiN say sirf aur sirf aik hi group JANNAT maiN jayega.... agar, g haaN AGAR ahmadi community jannat maiN gaye to (mirza k elaanay nabwat k baad walay) non-ahmadi jahannami hongay.... aur agar non-ahmadi jannati haiN to ahmadi jahannami hongay... aik rasool /nabi ko mannay nah mannay k baad aamaal saanwi darjah rakhtay haiN.... aik jhooTay Nabi ko mannay walay khaah ketna hi acha amal karaiN, woh kabhi janat maiN nahi jaasaktay... iskay bar.aks aik jhooTay Nabi ko nah maan.nay walay...sir last and final sachay Nabi ko mannay walaay ka aamaal maiN agar kami beshi howi bhi to yeh omeed ki jasakti hai k Allah onhaiN maaf kardega.
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myrizvi |
Group: Members Joined: 20th Apr, 2008 Topic: 103 Post: 5466 Age:
53
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| Posted on:26th Dec 2011, 12:12am |
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Ahmadi Awaam note farmaa laiN
1. maujoodah quran ko mannay walay "muslims" 1300 baras tak "muttafiqah" taur par yeh imaan rakhtay thay k hazrat Muhammad saw last and final nabi saw hain, aur aap saw k baad koi nabi nahi aayega... iss 1300 saal k dauran kisis bhi single mulsim scholar nay yeh nahi kaa k aap saw last n final nabi saw nahi haiN
2. Ahmadi bhi issi quran par imaan rakhnay ka dawa kartay haiN...jiskay mannay walay 1300 saal tak mottafiqah taur par hazrat Muhammad saw ko last nabi saw maantay thay
3. Mirza Ghulaam Ahmed nay wazah taur par kaha hai k jo onhaiN Nbai nabi nahi maantaa, woh KAAFIR hai ... aur jo KAAFIR ko kaafir nahi balkay MULIM maanay, woh bhi kaafir hota hai.... lehaza ahmadi scholars /ulema ki 100% aksariyat ka yeh "imaan" hai k non-ahmadi KAAFIR hai...lehaza ahmadi community k "awaam" ... iss gomraahi maiN nah rahaiN k ahmadi aur non-ahmadi just 2 firqay haiN, islam k like others firqay... aur donouN hi "muslim" haiN...jiska amal acha hoga woh jannati hoga etc etc.... amal ki baat to baad maiN hogi....
4. muslim ummat iss waqt dunya maiN 1.25 billion k qareeb hai jabkay ahmadi poori dunya maiN aik karoR say bhi kam haiN .... muslims k azali dushman yahoodi, hindu aur eesayee haiN... quran ki roo say yeh log kabhi bhi MUSLIMS k dost aur khiar khaah nahi hosaktay (ahmadi bhi quran ki iss ayat say waqif haiN) ... aur in "ilzaamaat" ko tareekhi sabootouN say check kar laiN
a) Mirza Ghulam Ahmed nay british india maiN, angrezouN ki support say nabwat ka dawa kia.. Mirza nay apni books maiN bhi likha hai k british govt nay onki help ki.
b) aaj bhi hindu govt /scholars muslims k moqaablay maiN ahmadi community ko support kartay haiN
c) christians aur jews (state, govts / awam) aaj bhi ahmadi community ki full support kartay haiN.... top ahmadi leader /scholars k aj bhi israil say talluqaat kissi say posheedah nahi...pakistan k Abdul Salam naami scientist ko bhi nobel prize onkay ahmadi honay ki wajah say milaa, warnah paak maiN onsay baray baray scientist maujood haiN
dost ka dost bhi dost hota hai aur dushman ka dost bhi dushman hota hai (iss main kisis ko shak nahi...yeh universally truth hai) ... muslim ummat k dushman jews, haiN aur jews k dost ahmadi haiN... issi say check kar laiN k ahmadi kaun haiN???
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myrizvi |
Group: Members Joined: 20th Apr, 2008 Topic: 103 Post: 5466 Age:
53
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| Posted on:26th Dec 2011, 12:27am |
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ahmadi awaam apni aaqbat bachaa.aiN 1. above debate maiN yeh saaf nazar aa raha hai k ahmadi deen ka ISLAM say koi talluq nahi hai. lehaza meri ahmadi awaam say apeal hai k woh pahlay
a) apnay ahmadi literature ko achi tarah study karaiN k woh kia hai
b) phir ghulam ahmed ki shakhsiyat ko study karain k osnay kab aur kaisay aur kiyouN nabwat ka elaan kia
c) ahmadi literature par muslim ummat k scholars ki tanqeed ko zaroor study karaiN...phir iss tanqeed ka jawaab "ahmadi mazhabi leaders" say maangaiN... agar ap maiN zati aql o sha'oor hai...ghalat o sahih ki tameez karnei ki ability hai to koi bhi apko "gomraah" nahi karsakega.... nah "muslim scholars" aur nah hi "ahmadi scholars"
d) hamain pata nahi k kab hamari aankh band hojaa.ay... qabar maiN jaatay hi hamari jannat / jahannam (jiskay ham haqdaar howay) hamiN mil jayegi... yani oska namoonah miljayega ... jaza aur saza ka aghaaz qabar say hi start hojayega.... qabar maiN jaanay say qabal apnay DEEN ko zaroor check karliyeh...agar woh ghalat howaa to.... ????
aj kat IT k daur maiN kissi bhi deen /mazhab ko check karna bahoot asaan hai...bislhasoos ISLAM claim karnay walay firqay to bahoot asaani say apnay aqaaid o amaal ko check kar saktay haiN k yeh ketna sahi hai aur ketna ghalat...Allah ham sab ko...jo khud ko mosalmaan honay ka dawaa kartay haiN ... sahi samajh aur aqal k saath durust ISLAM par imaan laanay aur amal karne ki taufeeq day...takay ham marnay k baad aik bhayanak azaab say bach sakaiN.
Allah hamara haami o naasir ho
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Roshni_83 |
Group: Members Joined: 25th Dec, 2011 Topic: 0 Post: 14 Age:
29
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| Posted on:27th Dec 2011, 3:21pm |
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my opinion AoA
@goodman
me ne ye nahin kaha ke doosre log Mussalmaan nahin hai, agr aap samjahte hain ke aap suche Mussalmaan hai to ussi tarha hum bhi samjhte hain ke hum suche Mussalmaan hain....lekin aap aur hum me ye Farak hai ke hum har Kalima-go ko Mussalmaan smajhte hain jabke aap humen Kafir kehte hain...
@alirajput
duniya me kissi bhi author ko kissi Mazhab ke bare me likhne se pehle, sahi tarha se tehkeek karni chye, bejaye ke wo ghallat baton ko issue karen, Peer-e-Kamil me aissi bohat si baaten hain jo ke nihayat hi ghallat hain, agr Umaira Ahmed itni hi fair hoti to wo apni book ko issue karne se pehle kissi sahi Ahmaddy se rabta karti aur sahi tarha se information le kar likhti....
iss tarha se hum sab ko bohat burra lagta hai, jab ghair mazhab ke Log, jaisse ke Christians hamare Pyare Nabi SAW ke bare me bohat si ghallat baten likhte hain aur un ke upar Bohtaan lagate hain..... baghair tehkeek kiye .... har suche Mussalmaan ko ye bohat burra lagge ga, lekin Khuda tallah ne hume sikhaya hai ke iss pe Sabbar karo aur Kalmi Jihaad apnao... aur issi taha se mujhe Umaira Ahmad ka Novel par ke bohat burra lagga, kyunke uss me bohat si ghallat baten hain, aur i am sure i know better than you about my faith....and no one can convince me , because Allah has show me the right way....Khuda tallah ka Laakh Lakh shukkar hai, ke me gumrahon me se nahin hoon, jitna bhi shukkar karun kamm hai....
Hazrat Mohammad SAW ne farmaya hai jo Waqt ke Imaam ko nahin pehchaane ga wo Jahalat ki Maut marre ga.... |
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goodman |
Group: Members Joined: 11th Oct, 2007 Topic: 59 Post: 6391 Age:
31
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| Posted on:27th Dec 2011, 3:30pm |
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sab muslims ha me ne ye nahin kaha ke doosre log Mussalmaan nahin hai, agr aap samjahte hain ke aap suche Mussalmaan hai to ussi tarha hum bhi samjhte hain ke hum suche Mussalmaan hain....lekin aap aur hum me ye Farak hai ke hum har Kalima-go ko Mussalmaan smajhte hain jabke aap humen Kafir kehte hain..
Roshni deen islam yeah kehta ha kay jiss ALLAH AUR HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW ka kalma par lya ha woo muslman ha..kooi uskoo kafir nahi ka sakta..ap yeah ap sab loogo kee responsiblity ha kay ap sab loog aik dosray koo muslims samjay |
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Roshni_83 |
Group: Members Joined: 25th Dec, 2011 Topic: 0 Post: 14 Age:
29
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| Posted on:27th Dec 2011, 3:40pm |
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My Path @ myrizvi
ur right this was my first posting here, i just come by chance to this discussion about Peer e kamil, so i right down my thoughts.... now to u
My Aqeeda is grounded on below premises.
Pehle iss sai k main chand salient points apne aqeede ke hawale se likhooN ek choti si tamheed bandna chahti huN k jo aik latife kee rang mein he lekin usmein bhi ek gehri hikmat maaloom hoti he.
5 fradeeay (Fraudulents) the aur unko aik bakra chahiyye tha to unko aik plan sooja k baqra kistara hasal kia jaey. Jab unhon ne deka ke aik Dehati aik baqre ke sath aa raha he to wo panchon akeley akeley kuch fassley par karey ho geay. Jab wo dehati pehle se guzra to usne pucha is Kutey (DOG) ki kia qimat hai to dehati ne jawab dia bhai qute aur baqre me tumhe faraq nazar nehi aata. Pirr age ja karr dusre ne dehati ko roka aur pucha k is Kutey kee kia qimat hai. To is par bhi who bola ke bhai hadd ho geiy aaj kal loghon ko baqre aur Kutey mein faraq nezar nehi aata. Pirr tisre aur chotey k paas se guzra aur dunon ne bhee jehi sawal poocha aur jis parr usey dono baar mayoos hona para. Jabb panchwein ne poocha to dehati ne socha waqe’ee agar sab is ko kutta keh rehein he to us mein koin na koi haqiqat zarur ho gi. To usne us bakre ko waisse hee chor dia aur istra panchoN ka kam ban gea. To yehi halat hai un Mukhalfeene Ahmadiyyat kee jo is tare ki be-buniad kissey garte rehte hain.
1-Mera pakka yaqeen hai k Islam aik sacha univeral mazhab hai. Quran aik kamil shariat (zabata hayat) he aur Quran sab ilahmi ya doosri Kitabon par hakam o adl (Arbiter) hai aur faisla sunata he k kia ghalt hai aur kia sehi (Al-Furqan).
2-Mera pakka Eman hai k Mohammad(saw) akhree-SHRE’EE (LAW-bearing) Nabbi hain aur isi nisbat se wo Khatam un Nabiyeen (KhatAm and NOT KhatIm mind you – Quran ne jo lika hai ussi par rehna chahiye) hain, yani k sab nabioN ki sifat - jalali ya jamali taur par - sab ki sab Aap_SAW ki Zaat mein kamal o akmal taur par puri hueen (found its completest and fullest expression in his_SAW person – Nobody can and ever could OUTGROW him in that respect). He_SAW was according to a Hadith KhatAm-anNabiyeen when Adam_AS was not yet born. So you have to interpret the word in that context also and taking the Quran into its entirety and totality. Best would be to take the counsel by Hazrat Mohammad_SAW himself who was Quran-Personified. Has he_SAW ever used the word Khatam, if so, in what context? Once he said, that „O Ali you are Khatam ul Wali (and in the same breath) AND I am Khatam ul Ambia. (A very well-known Hadith to Sunni and Shia considering it to be authentic).
Agar aap Khatam ka matlab Nabuwwat ke muamley mein akhree ka karte ho to pirr Walaiyat ka bhi akhree karna pare ge k Hazrat Ali_RZ k ba’ad jitne bhi Waliullah guzre wo - na-uzubillah na-uzubillah.. - jootey muftri the. Issi tara mukthalif Ashkhas/Sohaba ki nisbat bhi Khatam ka ista’amal Khatam-ul shooraa, Khatamul Atibaa, Khatamul Asfia, Khatamul Mohajerreen(Hazrat Abbas rz) etc. etc. kia gea. You can’t deny it. Can you.
KhatAm with the Vowel-A at the end according to Arabic Diction means Perfected, Consumated and Completed in its entirety and totality BUT it does not mean the One-Who-Does-The-End. You read the word Khatam (with Vowel-A) and makes the meaning that of Khatim (with Vowel-I). The word Khatam has a Ma’aroof Meaning (Profound signification with so much Depth in it). And strangely enough you even ignore all the Previous Great Renowned Saints of Islam, when it comes to the truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad_AS, that you seek refuge in packs of lies forged by your Mullahs, that is now more than 120 years back which have all been rebutted by Ahmadiyya-Muslim-Jama’at and you are repeating same again and again- nothing new though. Same lies but presented in new goblets.
3-Aur aik Basic Universal Truth hai, k agar Dinn charr aeye aur is Baat ka inkar karna k Suraj abhi nehi nikla to ye Hamaqat ho gee. The Sun and Day are inseprably related to eachother. Tamam Nashaneein (Signs of the Coming of the Messiah Reformer of the Letter Days) puree ho chuki hui haiN. Aur Aap abhi tak intizar mein ho k Dinn to charr aia hai lekin Suraj (representing the Reformer of the Age) abhi tak nehi nikla. Ye last 100-years ko hee aap dekh lein k chodweeN (14.) Sadi k sar par ain Hadith kai Mutabaq koi aia aur uske anai k ba’ad 2 world wars aur kitne zalazal aur afatein aur MuslmanoN ki zawalpazeer Halat aur Dunia mein Dajjali Fitne ka Urooj sab k sab zahar ho chuke huey haiN.
Quran aur Rasul_SAW k Mutabaq is halat mein Allah ta’ala nein Apni taraf se aik Massih aur Medi ka Wa’ada kia tha. Aur ain is Wa‘adey k mutabaq koi ayya, lekin jaissey azal se ye chalta aa raha hai k jab Allah Ta’ala kee taraf se koi aata hai to pehle uskee shadeed Mukhalfat aur Takzeeb aur Tehzeek aur Takfeer etc. hoti hai. History repeats itself issi liye kaha jata hai. Same Story repeat ho rehi hai only people are different, time is different, people are diffrent. Afsoos k is bar Muelmanon par ye itlaq ho raha he.
Jistarah Ummat-e-Muswi mein 14weeN sadi k sar par aik Massih aia aur uske sath kia saluk huwa. Uski Takzeeb-o-Takfeer hui aur an attempt was made to bring about death upon him through crucifixion-being the instrument- but they failed in that..
Issitarah Ummat-e-Mohammadiyya mein 14weeN sadi k sar par aik Massih (Massil-e-Essa) ka zahoor huwa to unke sath bhi bad saluk huwa.
Ye baat bhi Mohmmad_SAW ki puri hui k aap kee Ummat Muswi Ummat-e- se itnee Mushabeh Ho jaey gee jiss tarah aik jootay kee dusrey jootay se.
4-Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Aap_SAW ke Zill aur Ghulam-e-Sadaq aur Ghair-Share’ee Ummati Nabi hein. Aap_AS Fina Firrasool_SAW hone ke nateejay mein ( as if zeroing himself and everthing that was left out in him was the imprint or shadow (chaap or certification) of Rasulullah_SAW ) God raised him to the status of Nabuwwat in subordination to Mohammad_SAW.
Aap_as kee Relationship Hazrat Mohammad_SAW say assay hee hai jaissay servant kee apne Master say, aik shakh kee apnee baikh say, chand kee suraj say etc.etc.
Kissi Ko Haq nehi pohanchta k kissi kalima-go ko Kafir khey. HaN agar wo khud Kalima-go he aur dusre Kalima-go ko Kafir kehta he to wo Kufr us par khud wapas laut aata hai. Ye to huee buniadee batoN mein se aik baat jo kai Quran aur Hadies kee rooh se sabat hai.
Dusri Baat, agar aik Mude’ee (Claimant) jis ka aap abhi Muntazir hein, bil-farz wo aap ke nazdeek aa jata hai, aur pirr koi uski takfeer-bazi karta he to wo aap ke nazdeeq kia tehre ga??
He will be called Kafir only that much – no less no more - in that he refused to believe in him to be the Promised one. That’s all.
Actually, KAFIR is derived from the word KAFRA wich means to cover or subdue. As far as he/she believes in other matters of Islamic faith, he/she will be called Muslim/a all right. But we are not entitled to totally and entirely declare anyone downright as Kafir or Ghair-Muslim….
Now this was only in nutshell and will also take up one by one your points but not this time because I have to leave now.
But your points are all answered on this --
http://www.alislam.org/v/c-15.html
At the end i want to show you the same mirror in front of you- the words you have written below:
>>aj kal IT k daur maiN kissi bhi deen /mazhab ko check karna bahoot asaan hai...bislhasoos ISLAM claim karnay walay firqay to bahoot asaani say apnay aqaaid o amaal ko check kar saktay haiN k yeh ketna sahi hai aur ketna ghalat...Allah ham sab ko...jo khud ko mosalmaan honay ka dawaa kartay haiN ... sahi samajh aur aqal k saath durust ISLAM par imaan laanay aur amal karne ki taufeeq day...takay ham marnay k baad aik bhayanak azaab say bach sakaiN.<<
Khuda tallah sab ko Hadayat de aur sahi Raasta dikhaye...Ameen....
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Diplomate |
Group: Members Joined: 18th Oct, 2009 Topic: 48 Post: 3142 Age:
35
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| Posted on:27th Dec 2011, 10:41pm |
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 well
yahan aitqadat ko jan'ny k bary achi discussion chal rahi hay , myrizvi bro aur roshni sis ny apni apni maloomat sy yahan buhat acha likha hay ,
Islam aik aysa wasee tareen sumandar hay jis k kai kinary hain , aur jis jis ny jis kinary par b kharra ho kar islam ko daikha hay ussy islam ussi trah ka nazar aya hay , abb har kisi ka islam ko daikhny / samjhny ka andaz hi juda juda hay to yaqeena islam k bary maloomat b juda juda hi hon gi
har koi apni issi baat par ba zidd hay k jis andaz main uss ny islam ko daikha hay / samjha hay bas wohi drust hay baqi k sab ghalat hain , to yeh sab sy barri ghalat fehmi hay , aik mash'hoor quliya hay k "kisi b cheez k bary apny emaan ko parkhny k liye ussi cheez par dosry ka emaan parkha jaye" iss trah haq aur batil main farq khud hi wazy ho jaye ga
laiken fee zamana hum dosry ki baat man'na to door sun'ny ko b tayar nahi hoty , aur arguments k bajaye seedhy sy kisi ko kafir keh daity hain , kufar ka fatwa lagany sy pehly samny waly ki baat suni jaye k wo kehna kia chah raha hay , yahi asool adalti faislon main b howa karta hay laiken chun k hum sab muslims ko taleem hi yahi di gayee hay k sirf apni baat karo / mano / samjho aur emaan rakho dosry ki na to bat suno aur na hi uss ko baat karny ka moqa do ...well
yeh dour malomat ka dour hay , agar aaj b hum sab ny aik dosry ko suny baghair ussy jany baghair seedhy sy uss par kufar ka fatwa laga kar ussy chalta karna hay to phir hum sab ny iss maloomati dour ka haqq ada nahi kiya , han yeh zaror hay k kisi ko baat ko suno aur argments ki roshni main uss baatoi mano ya deny karo , iss trah maloomat main azafa k sath sath aman b rehta hay aur ilam ka haq b ada hota hay |
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glamour |
Group: Members Joined: 13th May, 2011 Topic: 13 Post: 881 Age:
25
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 10:51am |
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qadiani musliman nahi hai zindeeq hain
as salam oalikum
Murtid or Zindiq main farq
murtid kai lye toba ki talkin ka hukam hai agar wo toba karlay to saza sai bach jaye ga laken zindiq kai baray main imam mailik, imam abu hanifa or ek rawyat main ahmed farmaten hain kai us ki toba qabol nahi kyon kai is nai zindaqa kai jurm ka irtakab kya hai yani kufar ko islam sabit karne ki koshish hai. ye juram na qabil mafi hai. mirzai zindiq hain kyonkai is main koi shak nahi kai wo kafir hain qatan kafar hain. jis tara kalma tayaba main koi shak nahi kai ye hamra kalma hai or jo is main shak kare wo musalman nahi. isi tara mirza ghulam ahmed qadyani or is zaryat kai kafir honay main be koi shuba nahi, koi shak nahi. or jo in kai kufar main shak kare wo be musalman nahi.
WO KAFIR OR PAKE KAFIR HONE KAI BAWAJOD APNE KUFAR KO ISLAM KAI NAME SAI PESH KARTE HAIN. KEHTE HAIN HUM TO JAMATE AHMEDYA HAIN. HUM TO MUSALMAN HAIN. LONDON MAIN APNI BUSTI KA NAME RAKHA HAI ISLAMABAD OR KEHTE HAIN KAY JE HUM TO ISLAM KI TABLIG KARTE HAIN.
jab be kisi musalman sai bat karte hain to ye keh kai kar dokha dete hain. kai je mulvi to waise he baten karte hain dekho hum to namaz parhte hain, roze rakhte hain. ye karte hain wo karte hain or huzor ko khatim-ul-nabyan samjte hain. jee hamray to sharat beait main likha howa hai kai main sadke dil sai huzor ko khatim-ul-nabyan manta hon.
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glamour |
Group: Members Joined: 13th May, 2011 Topic: 13 Post: 881 Age:
25
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 11:39pm |
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Khatim-ul-nabyan main qadyanyon ki tahreef
adyani mirzai kehte hain kai khatim-ul-nabyan ka matlab nahi hain kai app akhri nabi hain na ye kai app kai bad nabwat ka darwza band hain balke ye matlab hai kai ayanda huzor SAW ki muhar sai nabi bana kar karen gain. thapa lagta hai or bani banta hai. imakat to dekye kai huzor SAW kai thape sai choda so saal ki ummat main nabi bana be to sirf ek or wo be benga or tinda. Huzor SAW ki muhar nai sirf ek nabi banya (or wo be sirf qadyani dajal naozobillah.)
algharz khatimul nabyan kai mayne ye the. kai Huzor SAW akhri nabi hain. app ki amad sai nabyon ki amad band hogaye. un par muhar lag gaye. ab koi nabi nahi bane ga. lifafa band karkay lifafa par muhar laga dete hain. jis ko seal karna kehte hain. khatam kai mayne seal kardena khatimul nabyan kai mayne ye hain kai app ki amad sai nabyon ki fehrasit sar bamhar kardi gay. ab na to is fehrist sai kisi ko nikala jaskta hai or na is main kisi or ka name dakhil kya jasakta hai. lakin mizayon nai is main ye tahrif ki kai khatimul nabyan kai mayne hain nabwat kai parwano ki tasdiq karne wala. ye kehte hain kai wo kagaz par dastakhat karkay muhar laga dya karte hain kai kagaz ki tasdiq hogay. Huzor SAW be uni mayno main khatimul nabyan hain. yani nabyon kai parwano main muhar laga kar nabi banate hain. pehle nabwat Allah Taalah khod dya karte the lakin ab ye muhakma Allah Tallah nai Huzor SAW kai supard kardya hai kai Huzor SAW muharen lagayen or nabi banyen.
ye hai zindiqa kai name islam ka lete hain, lakin apne kufrya aqayed par quran ki ayat ko dhalte hain isi tara kai in kai buhat kufrya aqayed hain jin ko ye islam kai name sai pesh karte hain. kehna ye hai kai mirzai zindiq hain kai aqayed ase rakhte hain jo islam ki ro sai khalid kufar hai. lakin ye apne kufrya aqayed ko islam ka name dete hain or quran wa hadis ko apne kufrya aqaid par dhalne kai lye in ki tehreef karte hain. ye khanzir or kute ka goshat bechte hian magar hallal zabeh keh kar or sharab bechte hain magar zamzam ka lebel chipka kar.
agar ye log apne din wa mazhab ko islam ka name dete balke saf saf keh dete kai hamra islam sai koi taluk nahi to walahul azeem humain in kai bare main is kadar mutafikar hone ki zarorat na hoti.
is kai bar kar ghazab kya hosakta hai? Mirza kai do juram hoye. ek ye kai nabwat ki dawa kar kay ek naya deen ejad kya or ka name islam rakha. dosra juram ye kai Muhammad SAW kai laye howye deen ko kufar kaha mirza kai deen kai manne wale musalman or Muhammad SAW kai manne wale in kai nazdek kafir.......muje batye kai kya kisi yahodi nai, kisi esai nai, kisi hindu wa sikh nai kisi chohare chamar nai, kisi parsi majosi nai is juram ka irtakab kya hai? ab to app ki samaj main agya hai kai mirza qadyani or mizayon ka kufar kis qadar badtreen hai. or ye dunya bhar kai kafiron sai badtar kafir hain.
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glamour |
Group: Members Joined: 13th May, 2011 Topic: 13 Post: 881 Age:
25
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 11:44pm |
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peer e kamil ki auther umaira ahmed per aatrazat ye koi hairat ki bat nah ikay peer e kamil p qadainion ko aatraz hai ye aatraz us waqt bkia gaya tha jab umaira ji ka novel peer e kamil shaya howa tha :) us waqt b qadianion ko itni hi aag lagi thi aaheen ki ro se wo gair muslim akliat hai or is bat or aahen ki un shakon ko umaira ji nay made nazar rakhtay howay or 3 qadianion ki zindagi ko mad e nazar rakhtay howay unhon nay peer e kamil ko tehrer kai tha or us main koib bat ghalat nahi
balkay tamam batain haqeeqat or sachai per mubni hai ..or such hamesha karwa hota hai is kiye peer e kamil qadianion ko b karwa laga :) ......... umaira ahmed per or peer e kamil per aatraz karnay se pehlay anay deen ka mutalia to kijye .......phir kisi per aatraz kijye ga .....allah pak sab ko in qadianion kay shar se mehfoz rakhay or aaisay nabowat ka dawa karnay walaon or un kay parokaron ko jahanum wasil karay ameen sumameen
thanks
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Diplomate |
Group: Members Joined: 18th Oct, 2009 Topic: 48 Post: 3142 Age:
35
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 1:37pm |
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Ahmdi ya Qadiyani kafir q hain ? qadiyani sy poocha jaye to jawab yeh daity hain k wo kafir nahi hain , yeh sab molvi ka dhong hay , agar kisi non ahmdi sy ahmdi k bary poocha jaye to wo kehty hain k ahmdi iss liye kafir hain k yeh khatam-e-nubawat par yaqeen nahi rakhty
iss sawal par myrizvi aur glamour ny buhat achi wazahat k hay , jab k roshni_83 ny b apny defense main buhat lambbi chorri post ki hay ..
Roshni ki post parr kar jo main nateeja ahaz kar saka hon wo yeh k ahmdi khatam nubawat ka matlab yeh laity hain k aap (s.a.aw) par nubawat ka ikhtatam nahi howa balky khatam nubawat iss sense mai kaha jata hay jaisy hum aam tour par kehty hain k yeh baat to bas uss fulaan shakhas par khatam hay ..aur issi sense main kaha jata hay k nubawat to bas aap (s.a.a.w) par khatam hay ...No thats wrong perception ..yeh khatam-e-nubawat ki ghalt aur mann gharrat defination hay
misal sy baat wazy karta hon
maslan "basheer" motor bike ka buhat aala mechanic ho uss jaisa koi dosra mechanic na ho to log "basheer" ki maharat ko sarah'ty howy kehty hain k jee motor bike repairing ki maharat to bass "basheer" par khatam hay
yaa "muneer" bator-e-wakeel arguments main mahar ho to kaha jata hay k jee "muneer" par wakalat khatam hay
yaa jaisy kaha jaye k siyasat karna bass zardari par khatam hay
yeh sab maharat , argumentation power yaa siyasat k andaz ki tareef hay , iss baat ka yeh matlab nahi k abb inn sab k baad na koi mahaar mechanic aa sakta hay , na koi aala wakeel aasakta hay , na hi koi aala siyasat kar sakta hay balky yeh saab repeat ho sakta hay , koi b mahar , acha wakeel , acha siyasat daan ban sakta hay ...
Nahi roshni g khatam-e-nubawat ko iss sense main nahi liya jasakta , qk jab hum khatam-e-nubwat kehty hain to iss sense main nahi k nubawat bass aap (s.a.a.w) par khatam hay , balky khatam-e-nubawat is sense main hay k abb aap (s.a.a.w) k baad nubawat ka baab hamaisha k liye band kar diya geya hay , yaani takveeni aur tashreehi aitbaar sy aap (s.a.a.w) k baad koi Nabi nahi aye ga
yeh allah ka wada aur qanoon hay , Islam k baad na hi koi new deen aye ga na hi koi deen laany wala , han yeh zaror hay k aap (s.a.a.w) ki rehlat k baad qiyamat tak iss deen ki wazahat wa tashreeh aur insano par nifaaz karny k liye alahi numayendy aaty rahain gy jo k imamat k unwan sy hongy nubawat k anwan sy nahi
iss k ilawa Roshni ny Imam Mehdi (ajfj) k bary main jo baat ki hay wo b qadiyanoun ki rah-e-farar hay , aur mann gharrat baat hay q k jab inhon ny daikha k jhota Nabi hony ka dawa kaam yaab nahi howa aur ahal-e-islam inhain islam sy kharij maan rahy hain to phir new andaz apnaya k nahi mirza ghulam ahmed ny Nabi hony ka dawa nahi kiya balky Nabi k 12th khalifa yaani Imam Mehdi (ajfj) hony ka dawa kiya hay
iss ziman main aap (s.a.a.w) ki ahadees sy jo hawala jaat diye jatey hain wo apni jaga drust hain laiken wo hawala jaat jis hasti k bary main hain uss ka miyaar yeh nahi k wo apni zindagi k pehly 34 / 35 saal kisi aur rang main guzary , duniya ki taleem duniya main aaker lay , yahan sy iam seekhy aur phir yaka yak zindagi k akhri ayaam main elan kar dy k wo allah ka numayenda hay , kabi kahy k nabi hay kabi kahy k nabi ka khalifa hay
nahi yeh osaaf uss Haadi k ho hi nahi sakty jis k bary aap (s.a.a.w) ny paishan goi kar rakhi hay , wo hasti allah k banye howy nizam ki takmeel k liye aye gi na k nizam main bigaarr paida karny k liye ...uss hasti ka miyaar yeh nahi k wo duniya main aakar kar pehly taleem lay aur baad azan dawa kary , nahi wo khuda ki tarf sy alim aur mualim ka darja lay kar ayien gy!!!!!
agar ahmdi mirza ghulam ahmad ko Imam Mehdi manty hain to phir yeh b daleel paish karain k mirza ny kis time aur kahan dajal sy jang ki , ahmdi yeh b bataien k kab aur kahan Hazrat Esa (a.s) ka dobara zahoor howa hay aur unhon ny mirza k peechy namaz ada ki hay ???
yeh nishaniyan uss mehdi bar'haq (ajfj) k bary main hain jisy abi tak allah ta'ala ny parda-e-ghaibat main rakha howa hay , uss hasti ka zahoor abi baqi hay , aysa nahi k uss hasti ka zahoor ho aur duniya ko maloom na ho balky ghaib sy aany wali sada har khaas-o-aam k kano main zaror parry gi k Mehdi-e-bar haqq ((ajfj) ka zahoor ho chuka hay
jab k 7 arb ki kul abadi main mirza ahmed qadiyani k to name sy b iss dunia k aik karoor sy ziyada afraad waqif nahi hain ...to kis trah tasleem kiya jaye k mirza apny dawy main sacha hay ...???
lehaza yeh dawa b jhoot par mabni hay , iss sy aagy agar roshni sis koi argument karna chahain to welcom kiya jaye ga ..:) |
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myrizvi |
Group: Members Joined: 20th Apr, 2008 Topic: 103 Post: 5466 Age:
53
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 10:07pm |
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Jazak Allah glamour n Diplomate well said n explained...
Qadyaniyat ki bunyaad mirza Ghulam ahmed qadyani ki "nabwat" par mabni hai lehaza yeh aik alag deen /mazhab to hosakta hai... lekin iska oss ISLAM say koi talluq nahi jo hazrat Muhammad saw 1400 saal qabal lay kar aa.ay thay.
lekin chouNkay "qadyani" zabardasti, khud ko mosalmaan hi qarar nahi detay balkay mirza ghulam ahmed qaadyani ko nabi nah maannay walouN ko KAAFIR bhi kahtay aur samajhtay haiN...jiska iqrar onkay leader nay pakistan ki qaumi assembly maiN alal elaan kia thaa...jiskay jawaab maiN pakistan k qanoon saazouN nay muttafiqah taur par qaadyani ko kaafir declare kia thaa... now they are non-muslim as per land of the law too.
pakistan main aur bhi non-muslim rahtay aur bastay haiN./..like hndu, christians, sikh etc magar inhouN nay kabhi khud ko MUSLIM declare karkay muslim awam ko dhoka denay ki koshish nahi ki lehaza inhaiN "non-muslim" declare karne ke liyeh kissi qanoon saazi ki zaroorat nahi paRi.
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WEHSHI |
Group: Members Joined: 17th Aug, 2010 Topic: 23 Post: 1879 Age:
47
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 10:44pm |
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myrizvi ap ko nhn lagta k i sforum pr ahesta ahesta mazhab aur firqa per behas berah gai hai
aur is terah k threads ziyaah start ya restart kiyay ja rahay hain jo members ko apis main lerain ya aik la hasil behas jari rakhian
asal problem yeh hai k hum sab log alag alag ager kisi gher muslim ko islam ki terf raghib kerain to apnay dalail se 99% umeed hai k usay muslamn ker len gay
lekin hum sab mil ker ager aik muslim ko us k fiqah ya firqay se tabdeel kerna hahain to 1 % chance hai
kiun muslaman apnay aqeeda main khud ko itna mazboot sajhta hai k usay hilana asan nhn ilawa un logon k jo k daleel ko samjhnay ki lachak nhn rkhtay
aur wohi log ziyadah apna firqa change kertay hain
main halan k khud aik tetrah se is bat ka qail hun k islam sirif Quran aur Hadees per mushtamil hai baqi sab refrence hain ya history aur isi aqeeda rakhnay walay ko log WAHABI kehtay hain lekin main khud per koi lable nhn lagata kiun k mera imaan hai k ager main Mohammdi nhn to kuch bhi nhn kiun k yeh ais ahi hai k main kisi k gher per kisi aur ki name plate lagadun
mea observation hai k Wahabi sab se ziyada sakhat aur be lachak hain apnay aqeeda main aur isi liyay un main se log apna firqa badaltay hain
mirza ahmad bhi ager ap check kerain to shuru main bohat beray aalim thay SLAFI mazhab k
jahan tak bat hai roshni83 ki to main smajht ahun k unhon ne is topic k liyay apni yeh id banaai hai aur un ka way btata hai k woh in galiyon ki purani musafir hain yani forum ki
asal bat yeh hai k yeh sab musalmano ka aqeeda hai k jo Allah, Nabi SAW ki Khatam e risalat, Quran per imaan nhn rakhta woh islam se baher hai
aur Bhutto saheb ne jab yeh kiya tha k qadiyanio, ahmadiyon ko gher muslim aur aqliyat qarar diya tah to bohat tehqeeq k baad yeh step uthaya tah au rmujhay yad hai k is k liyay pakistan k ulam amain Moulana modudi, Alama Rasheed turaabi mufty hazrat se fatawa aur mashweron k baad yeh qanoon banaya tha
jahan tak main smajhta hun Umaira ahmed new genration ki musanifa hain aur unhon ne bhi new soch k tehat k kisi ko gher muslim ya kafir kiun kaha jai k tehat aik terah se qadiyanion ka muqdma likha hai is novel main
wesay bhi herat hai k ap ne bhi is behas ko kiun promot ekiya kya ab islam quran aur hadees ki bijaai novels se tasdeeq kiya jai ga???
aik adeeb aur scholer main feraq hota hai adeeb apni soch ko bhi shamil kert ahai apni observation main lekin aik scholer chahay kisi bhi mazhab ka ho apnay hisab se thos haqeeqat per behas kerta hai
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WEHSHI |
Group: Members Joined: 17th Aug, 2010 Topic: 23 Post: 1879 Age:
47
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| Posted on:28th Dec 2011, 10:59pm |
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KHATAM khatam lafaz humaray han bylangual hai
yani arabic main bhi i ska matlab hai aur farsi main bhi is ka matlab hai aur hum ne isay urdu main akhaz kiya hai
farsi main khatam kehtay hain kisi cheez ki inteha ko yani end ko lekin i send main aik problem hai k isay jari rakha ja sakt ahai aur islam aur quran ki ru se khatam ka yeh matlab nhn
arabic main khatam ka matlab hai kisi cheez ko inteha tak pohancha ker tamam sections close ker dena seald ker dena stamped ker dena
arabic main khatam kehtay hi stamp ya mohar ko hain kiun jab kisi bhi cheez main stamp lag jai, mohar lag jai to us k baa dusay kisi bhi terah ya shakal main jari nhn kiya ja sakta na us ka koi zameema nikal sakta hai na koi branch na koi qisat
aur islam ne quranne KHAATIM UL AMBIYA keh ker Nabi SAW ko woh mohar qarar diya hai k aap SAW is sisila e nabuwat ka woh last step hain jis k baad agay kuch jari nhn rakha ja sakta
is liyay roshni saheba k liyay yeh zaruri hai k is lafaz KHATAM ka asal mafhoom samjhain
is k ilawa roshni sahiba ager haq janan achahti hain to RAHEEQ UL MAKHTOOM perhain to un k sab sawalon k jawab bhi mil jain gay aur insha Allah rah e hidayat bhi |
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